The information age has unleashed a boatload of alternative opinions on addiction, recovery, and treatment. The most popular alternative opinion we’ve seen is that there are a lot of problems with 12-step programs. Are these expressions merely blind hatred for AA, or is it something more meaningful?
Formerly, those of us who were AA rejects were made to feel insane when the program made no sense to us, and thus offered no help to us. Any avenue toward “help” sent us back into 12-step programs, because they were essentially the only game in town. And there, we could once again feel crazy, alone, and hopeless when we failed to see exactly how we were powerless and how the recovery lifestyle, with all of its contradictions, self-defeating ideas, and irrational recommendations, could save us from ourselves. We proceeded to feel more and more hopeless as each stint of “help” resulted in worsening personal problems.
But then, we went online, and almost like what people say they experience at 12-step meetings, we heard that others had the exact same experience of increased feelings of helplessness and confusion after attending 12-step-based programs. We didn’t feel so alone. We weren’t the only ones who saw through the tenets of powerlessness, spiritual maladies, and substances as “cunning and baffling” entities. We weren’t the only ones who knew that “higher power” really meant “god”, and that no matter how much we wished for it, a doorknob, oak tree, or Group Of Drunks (G.O.D.) couldn’t magically enter our soul and remove the will to drink or drug.
It has been no small event that millions of people have read these accounts and/or revealed themselves online as 12-step rejects. It has been important for others to know that they aren’t crazy if they find themselves unable to drink Bill Wilson’s Kool Aid. But what’s next? Are we offering a true alternative to the madness of the 12-step recovery culture – or delivering troubled people into the hands of an equally dangerous piper?
Are you “in denial” of the true problem with AA?
In order to ensure that we don’t promulgate the faults of the 12-step approach to drug and alcohol use problems, we need to understand what those problems truly are. I think, for most of us, they were mostly covered in steps 1 thru 3:
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
Everything about those first three steps essentially tells us: you are weak and you can’t control yourself, thus you need some other entity to control your behavior for your own good. Isn’t that what you found most offensive to your understanding of life and human behavior? Isn’t that what sabotaged you, and made any choice to use substances into the equivalent of the choice to jump off a cliff? Wasn’t the experience of being browbeaten into accepting these tenets completely devastating to your sense of control over your own behavior, and your hope for a better life?
Don’t you hate the way that 12-step programs teach people to believe that they are weak, powerless, and need to depend on others to “manage” their “addictions?”
I think a lot of you feel this way. I’ve seen it expressed plenty online. Yet many of you seem to promote and focus on things that further the exact notions put forth in those first three steps. For example, over the past few days, a spate of 12-step-critical articles have appeared in my facebook newsfeed. In said articles, the authors tear apart 12-step programs because they aren’t run by “professionals”, such as addiction counselors or therapists. They complain that we should be providing “evidence based treatments” for people with “addictions.” There are several things wrong here:
1. Evidence Based Treatments (EBT) are a fantasy. Twelve Step Facilitation is an EBT. That’s right, the thing that you know so well to be ineffective and perhaps harmful to people with substance use problems is officially an “Evidence Based Treatment.” (12-Step programs are Evidence Based Treatments?) If this is so, what does that say about the claims supporting other EBTs?
2. Since you’re demanding that people get “treatment” from medical and psychological professionals, you are implicitly accepting and promoting AA’s disease theory. That disease theory is the same one that teaches people they are weak and powerless. It’s the same one that convinces people to resign themselves to a lifelong struggle with a boogie monster called addiction or “alcoholism.” It’s the same one that increases binge drinking and “relapse” in those who believe it most strongly.
3. The same disease/powerlessness theory that has been so disillusioning and disempowering to so many people who entered 12-step programs over the years becomes no less harmful when it’s taught by someone with medical/counseling credentials. In fact, there’s good reason to believe it could be even more harmful in such hands, because it’s coming from a more convincing source.
Need I continue? The professional medical treatment that is usually offered up as an alternative, first of all, doesn’t usually exist. The treatment programs claiming to use it almost always end up funneling people into 12-step programs. But even if they were to stop sending people into 12-step programs, they are still teaching them that they can’t control themselves – that they need to “avoid triggers” in relapse prevention programs; that their brain makes them do it – by promising that some sort of pharmaceutical will be their ultimate solution; or by teaching them that without “ongoing support” from group and individual counseling sessions (unofficial AA meetings led by a therapist) they will succumb to their inherent weaknesses caused by their disease. They need constant help with stress and anxiety and other “underlying causes of addiction” or else they’ll “relapse” – a word that can only invoke a powerful disease that robs you of the power of choice.
What I’m getting at, obviously, is that AA and other 12-step programs are dangerous because they teach people to view themselves as weak and powerless and in need of an external force to cause them to change – but meanwhile, the supposed “professionals” that the anti-12-step movement so readily recommends as an alternative do the exact same thing.
In some cases, the professionals may actually be worse. First off, most of them are definitely going to teach people 12-step principles and refer them to 12-step programs. But even the rare few who don’t do this are going to sabotage them in other ways: They tie every normal problem of life to drugs and alcohol. Did bad things happen to you as a child? That’s gonna cause you to drink and drug. Did you have a stressful day? That’s gonna cause you to drink and drug. Anxious about something? That’s gonna cause you to drink and drug. Depressed about something? That’s gonna cause you to drink and drug. Feeling lonely? That’s gonna cause you to drink and drug. These are normal difficulties that nearly everyone faces at one time or another, yet not everyone chooses drug and alcohol use as a response to these problems – nor does everyone run to a counselor every time they have these difficulties, lest they drink or drug. Nor do they all have wonderful “alternative coping strategies” for these difficulties – most probably have no “coping strategies” whatsoever. Most people don’t connect these difficulties to drinking and drugging to begin with. They aren’t constitutionally any different than those of us who have had substance use problems – they just haven’t been taught that these things are necessarily connected.
Maybe some of you have completely rejected the addiction treatment world and the disease concept. But then you turn around and say that people need vitamins and nutritional supplements or macrobiotic food or whatever in order to stay sober. Don’t you realize that you’re doing the same exact thing as the 12-step groups – you’re teaching people that the cause of their substance use has nothing to do with direct choice, and that it’s actually caused by a biological factor. Doesn’t such a theory suffer the same problems as the disease concept of addiction? With this crowd, as much as with the 12-step crowd, the troubled person can’t simply recognize what choices work or don’t work to achieve their goals, they can’t rethink what they’re doing with their lives and choose a new path – instead, their choices are caused biologically and they need to depend on the nutritionist to prescribe a cocktail that flips the proper switches in their brain.
And then there are the spiritual experience people who latch onto a new hallucinogenic every few years. Tripping on acid, ibogaine, ketamine, or ayahuasca becomes a popular suggestion every few years as a “cure” for addiction, and is all the rage in the press each time it makes a resurgence. The theory here is exactly the same as the 12-step programs – you are weak, and this spiritual experience will connect you to the power you need to change. Screw the spiritual experience of the 12-step programs, get the spiritual experience of the latest hallucinogenic.
Missing The Point
I saw a post on Facebook that compared AA to Narconon (the rehab based on Scientology). It drew several comparisons – that both are cults, based on a personality (Bill W or L Ron Hubbard), based on teaching from an old book, etc. But most importantly, the post kept stressing that neither were run or founded by medical professionals. So what? Yes, Narconon has deep problems, but the bigger fundamental problem is that they claim addiction is not a disease, yet they purport to offer “treatment” for it. Treatment for what? A nonexistent disease? How can someone be expected to believe they don’t have a disease when this taught to them by people claiming to “treat” them for the very same imaginary disease? Narconon centers aren’t the only ones making this tragic error. There are others out there, and you can easily figure out who you are.
This course of action is clearly ill-conceived: to battle the disease concept of addiction, and preach that it’s false – then offer “treatment for addiction” is self-contradictory. If you activists reading this can understand how utterly nonsensical this is in practice, then hopefully you will stop missing the point, and understand that it’s also ridiculous to recommend the same. You can’t argue against the disease concept, and then recommend treatment. You can’t argue against teaching people to feel personally weak and dependent on a lay-led support system – then proceed to teach people to feel personally weak and dependent on a “professionally” led support system. You can’t argue so brilliantly against the biological determinism of the disease model of addiction, only to turn around and proclaim that nutritional deficiencies or even simple withdrawal are the causes of substance use. Well, I guess you can do these things, but if you expect to be taken seriously, then you’re headed for a deep disappointment. Such advice is inherently self-contradictory. If the disease and weakness teachings are the problem, they are the problem.
To those of you who are against 12-step programs because of its cult-like aspects, yet you turn around and recommend alternative support groups, what do you think you’re recommending? The elements that lead to this problematic atmosphere are clear enough for anyone to see:
- See yourself as being “in need of support”
- See relationships with others who’ve “faced the same struggles” as some sort of medicine you need in order to “cope”
- Create a system where anyone can join this group of others
- Get all of these people together, and encourage them to pour their guts out to each other – and to rely on each other as lifelines
Why should a “mutual support group” by any other name result in anything less than the mess that is AA?
How absurd do the following statements sound?:
You’re not powerless – but you need a mutual support group. Screw those people who say you’ll relapse without the support of AA – but you better make sure you get help with your “underlying issues” from the properly trained and licensed professionals. You don’t have a disease, but you need medical treatment for your addiction.
AA members and other 12-step pushers (such as interventionists and those who work in treatment centers) are quick to confront troubled substance users, label them as diseased and powerless, and claim that they’re in denial if they disagree with these views. Many anti-12-steppers and “alternative treatment” pushers are quick to reject this nonsense, but then they more subtly tell people that they’re weak. They tell them that without the proper “coping methods” and “support network” they’ll relapse. They often sell people a kinder gentler version of powerlessness. Is this any better than being straightforward about it?
To the anti-12-step/anti-disease-model movement – I beg of you, stop missing the point. Figure out what you’re fighting for, and fight for it consistently. Otherwise, you risk delivering troubled people into the hands of equally harmful systems of help.
Starting Fresh
What if you recalled what really hurt you and others in 12-step programs – being taught that you were weak, powerless, diseased, and in need of an outside force to direct your life – and you threw all of that garbage out, then started fresh? What if you tried to help people without all of that baggage? What would you do?
- Would you tell them they need medicine and professional medical help for anything other than detoxification (or related medical problems)? That is – would you tell them they need medicine to make different choices?
- Would you tell them that instead of a 12-step sponsor, they should have a therapist or counselor direct their life?
- Would you offer up a total non-sequitur, such as “you need vitamins and nutritional supplements to stay sober?”
- Would you tell them that if they don’t find a way to avoid or deal with every normal problem of living that everyone faces (stress, anxiety, depression, sadness, loneliness, etc), then they will be forced to continue to use substances heavily?
- Would you tell them anything that indicates that they are inherently weak and helpless/powerless?
- Would you tell them anything that would overcomplicate their problem?
Try this when you personally take the time to attempt to help someone with a substance use problem: Don’t believe that they are powerless or weak, because they aren’t. Believe that they are powerful and capable of making whatever changes they may end up wanting. Don’t believe they are a helpless victim when it comes to substance use, because they aren’t. Believe that they are willfully choosing substance use for the same basic reason everyone else chooses it – because it offers a quick thrill in the form of a physical sensation – immediate gratification. Don’t believe that stress or anxiety or any other so-called “underlying issues” are causing their substance use, because it isn’t. Believe that human behavior has reasons, not causes. Don’t believe that people use substances for negative reasons, because they don’t. Believe that people use substances for the quick bursts of pleasure that they bring. Also, believe that everyone is capable of making choices that bring them greater levels of happiness than substance use.
After you’ve got these ideas straight, have a real conversation, where you listen, where there is a give and take, where you don’t tell them how to live their life. Ask questions. Do they think that their substance use habit is bringing them the quality and quantity of happiness they’re looking for? If so, leave it at that – you don’t get to decide what they want. If not, do they think they might have better options available to them? Would they be happier with no substance use? Less substance use? How so? What would they rather do with their time and resources? How could they make that happen? When do they want to make that happen?
Why would anyone need credentials to have this conversation? Why would anyone need “support” to keep themselves from making choices that they no longer find attractive? Why should people think that this needs to be a big struggle, and that it needs to be dragged out? Why shouldn’t people just believe that they can move on with their lives as soon as they realize they want to pursue greater happiness in other ways?
And if you’re going to try to offer a formal system of help for people with substance use problems, make sure it offers them the same as above, and more if possible. Are you capable of offering people a path to self-discovery, shame free evaluation of choices, empowerment, and new awareness of life options? If you can design a method of help that offers these things, without breeding a sense of inherent weakness and dependency, then you will have something helpful. If not, then you’re probably offering 12-step-lite.
Don’t get me wrong here – you don’t have to offer an alternative method of help in order to spread a message that is helpful to people with substance use problems. Far more people get over these problems without help than with help. Moreover, the best data available show that people are not more likely to change their substance use habits with help than without it. And let’s be clear about something, if people weren’t told that addiction is a special hard to solve problem, then they would deal with it as they do other life problems – just like bad relationships or dead-end jobs – they would naturally look for something better and change it. So, you can be helpful just by arming people with the knowledge that their substance use problems are not a special case of disease, powerlessness, or weakness. If you’re good at spreading that message, why would you turn around and ruin it by recommending a form of help that contradicts that message? Why not just spread the word that people are powerful and capable of changing and making more fulfilling choices?
One quick note – Medical help is obviously needed in some cases of withdrawal syndrome from drugs and alcohol – in order to safely treat the physical symptoms of withdrawal (not to “treat addiction”), but I don’t know why anyone would recommend medical help for the ongoing choice to use substances, unless they already believed that addiction is a disease.
I don’t know how it happened – whether the recovery culture co-opted the anti-12-step/anti-disease movement, or whether this movement has simply fallen into the trap of accepting the premises laid out by AA (powerlessness, disease, loss of control) – but I’m afraid that many in this movement are doing nothing more than putting gold paint on the giant turd that is the conventional recovery culture. If you want to offer something different, then offer something that is truly different – something that isn’t built on the same weak foundation as the recovery culture.
The 12-step/recovery movement has it’s detractors – the anti-12-step movement – and accordingly, this movement has its own detractors. These devout 12-steppers say that we just want to bash AA and other 12-step programs. I’m sorry to say it, but in regard to many in the anti-12-step movement, they might have a point. If you detest the 12-step recovery movement, but you recommend replacing it with similar things minus the 12-step label and buzzwords, then your criticisms must be questioned. Is it just personal, or are you really trying to fight against the counterproductive ideas of the recovery culture? Figure it out.
-Steven Slate
I, for one, am fighting to remove the stranglehold that 12 step programs have on the U.S. addiction “treatment” industry. I had my own issues with alcohol and as a result of those issues I made a decision to quit. And that was it. I have not had a drink of alcohol in over 3 1/2 years, and I have no cravings nor do I even think of consuming alcohol.
I am a member of the anti-AA, anti-12 step programs because I honestly think the AA program of finding God is detrimental to individuals and can be extremely harmful, in many ways. I also do not buy the disease concept of addiction that was so effectively marketed and sold by Marty Mann in the ’40’s, 50’s and 60’s.
I have begun to look to other countries to see what they are doing for addictions. Mr. Slate, you state above that if one wants to offer something different from AA or 12 step, then offer something that is truly different. Do you have any suggestions? I am all ears!
But why not let people have it if that is what they want? Any number of people that have gone to AA benefitted from it. You were mandated to 22 meetings due to a DUI, snoozed all the way through, and you gave up your alcohol usage because it threatened you professionally. Why not before you got the DUI? I agree that people shouldn’t be mandated to AA. They should just go to jail for crimes committed. I have agreed with you on other forums where you made these disclosures that there should be no mandating to AA but not because the program doesn’t work. AA is for those that want it.
You have nothing to offer but a bunch of frustration that you were made to sit through 22 meetings instead of just going to jail. You don’t have anything, either, as you and most of the other Antis you cling to claim that willpower is the only thing needed. if so, why did a dui and the threat to your licensure do it for you? Until those events took place, you apparently didn’t consider that you had a problem with alcohol.
I don’t have to buy a disease concept to recognize that alcohol was ruining my life and I was a social harm to those around me. AA helped me immensely, as it has people of many faiths and those who are agnostic and atheist.
I absolutely agree with you. I personally don’t get some of the things in AA meetings or agree with certain things, but others do. Until somebody offers something different, the AA program is going to be the go to place for help and where the legal system will require you to go when you have problems with addiction. All people are different and one option will never be the answer for everyone. People can continue to write and complain about the wrongs and misgivings of AA, but until someone actually gives another alternative, it will stay the same. At least there is something out there for people who do find it life saving…… Maybe it didn’t save ones fathers life, but it did their mothers.
its the go to place for people wanting to get help ? ? . .. the key word being want . . . unfortunately A A s ” stop thinking for yourself ” ” hand over you ability to make good choices and positive changes ” ” our way is the only way ” and ” you ll die or go to jail if you dont do it the way we say ” has never been much help at all. Do you really think the above a a slogans helped you stop drinking ? cuz anything that results in the desired effect less then one percdent of the time ( which is a a s success rate ) is considered a failure and scrapped without a second thought. and its almost certainly not what actually helped you do anything .. Chances are almost 100 percent you did the quitting even though you were going to meetings which presented a whole set of additional obstacles for you to overcome but as your motivation to get in the car and go somewhere and do something about quitting shows . . . you were self driven to quit and did so even though you were told it wasnt your call at all.. The credit goes to you .. And the harm in A A is most everyone else who wants help thru a a isnt able to overcome the additional obstacles a a creates … if something is only good for less then 1 person out of 100 it would be most definitely cause to scrap it and go about it an entirely different way . i dont know how else to put it so you might understand . If something only helps less then one teen girl make the right choice and remain not pregnant out of 100 teen girls youd immediately scrap your approach and try something ANYTHING else cuz how much worse could you do really ?? well thats how many alcoholics out of 100 abstain from drinking using a a s approach to not drinking . thats why people are so called anti a a because the powerlessness iaa requires influences and that influence cant be anything but negative. no one there can do anything about drinking … just sit and wait for god … god helps those who help themselves. Iim not anti a a im pro choice .. people have the power to choose and a a does everything to take away that choice. and without it it doesnt work .. you get the credit for not drinking. not a a .. .
One good reason to establish whether claims about “addiction” and “recovery” are true is that it’s not just about people joining a little group and deciding to believe stories about themselves without scientific evidence, but because the “addiction”/”recovery” storyline informs public policy and has devastating effects on people who have nothing to do with those little groups – I’m talking about people with chronic severe pain. Because of the “addiction”/”recovery” storyline being accepted by our government – to the point that we not only have a government agency dedicated to it (NIDA), but the White House also has a Drug Czar.
People with severe chronic pain who use opiates so they can work, exercise, clean the house, raise the kids, etc., are treated like criminals – photographed, urine tested to prove they take the meds prescribed, only allowed to have one months prescription with no refills – on paper and only filled at one pharmacy, given contracts to sign to show they “understand” that the drugs that treat their pain might cause them to engage in troubling behavior (with no scientific evidence that this is true).
Also suffering are doctors who live in fear because they know that by prescribing opiate pain meds, they are under scrutiny from the FDA. Some doctors are so frightened, they won’t prescribe pain meds to anyone ever, even when they know the patient has real, severe pain.
So no, it’s not possible to let people just keep telling themselves and each other these bogus stories about how drugs (or alcohol) supposedly cause them to behave in certain ways.
Its laughable when I see Peter says. In AA one might say, you are a dry drunk individual. AA is not treatment or therapy to some; Just a support mechanism. With 3 kinds of diseases, parasitic, infectious, I don’t think its insane to say there are hallmark signs & symptoms that fall under a chronic disease. I can read your information; and say AA is not 4 everyone. One should look at treatment issues; but you don’t seem to be solution oriented with your rhetoric. There are atheists/agnostic , free thinkers meetings. What matters to me is that people find what they need to deal with all addictions.
Great article. I can go to meetings or not go to meetings. I suppose I go through phases. I have dogmatically stood up for AA and dogmatically stood against AA-been on both sides of the coin. I have had 2 years and 2 months sober following the 12 steps (free of the DESIRE to drink) and I have had 18 months NOT following the 12 steps trying other methods (Neural Linguistic Programming and meditation) also free of the desire to drink. What really gets on my nerves in the anti-AA movement is this nonsensical and ludicrous claim that AA has a LESS THAN zero percent success rate, it is worse than never having gone in the first place. Not arguing the other part of that point about people “growing out of it” basically, just that this is a clear cut straw man argument. No where in the AA literature does AA claim that you do the steps ONE TIME and for the rest of your life you won’t drink, it claims over and over again that you are free from the desire in 24 hour increments. The anti-AA movement basically seems to ignore what AA claims to be it’s solution and says what they AA program REALLY means is you do it once and you are free for the rest of your life-people relapse ergo AA will NEVER “work”. If people want to bash AA and they despise it, they want to be slaves to their anger while claiming to be free simply because they don’t go to meetings or do SMART, Rational Recovery, Life Ring, or their own solution, they need to at least not resort to straw man arguments and ad hominum attacks. I have know plenty of obnoxious AA members I have wanted to punch in the face, and I have known some who were among the finest people I have ever known who would give you the shirt off their back. No matter how mad I was at AA, I never bad mouthed those respectable people. To bad mouth AA and call it evil is to also bad mouth the good people. This is just as annoying as anti-religious people (I consider myself an Atheist BTW) bashing Christians simply because of hating adults having imaginary friends believing that religion is solely to blame for all atrocities in history as opposed to religion being used as an excuse to harm people (not to deny harm done due to insane beliefs inherent in dogma resulting in psychiatric conditions IE: 9-11) because those people had desires to murder, rape, and pillage, in the first place. They bash Christianity and ignore the Christians who would give you the shirt off of their back (shocking I know, but I have been friends with some Christians like that and they were truly gems among their fellow born agains) even though I see “god” as an imaginary friend for adults myself. Is the AA program perfect? Not in a million years. Does it matter? No, because the literature doesn’t claim the program to be perfect. Whether I go or not, I ignore the really dogmatic pro-AA gibberish and the really dogmatic anti-AA gibberish. If a person fails in AA do I blame the person or the program? Neither. AA is not the only solution, even the literature claims that. Lots of AA members ignore entire sections of the literature and cherry pick to make it say what it doesn’t (but then again so do anti-AA people). The more religious people are about anything, Christianity, AA, Buddhism, Atheism, Apple, Xbox, Playstation, Marijuana, etc etc etc, the more they ignore the flaws in their own position. Is that the fault of the above mentioned or the fault of the individual? Just something to think about, not denying propaganda or making the argument that their aren’t shady aspects to any movement or belief system, but at some point people need to take responsibility for their own ludicrous claims and be honest about how they cherry pick.
Personally and through professional experience, I have found that 12 step can be very helpful the first year. Then, it is time for the individual to take CONTROL of their own recovery (clinical vs. individual based recovery) By this point a person should be able to think on their own and realize what is best for them. Every 12 stepper I have come in contact will not recognize the value of outside opinions and information. I have literally watched a sponsor kill his sponcee because they needed medication to help stabalize their mood. And, they used exercise to help with blood pressure. The sponsor told the sponcee that they were replacing their chemical of choice with exercise and must stop all activity immediately, OR THEY WOULD RELAPSE. War story meetings are not the answer. Get a good therapist and find some hobbies. Live a full life. After 25 years of THESE ROOMS, what does the old timer have? Yah they’ve been sober for 25 years. So what, big F%^&(n deal. Have you lived? Have you loved? Provably not, you’ve spent 25 years in a room. No life experience there
What a shame, SL, because AA is not anti-medication. In fact, a great debt is owed to the medical community and that has been recognized. My sponsor told me that if I had questions about anything, that is what the literature is for. Anyone that reads it knows that AA has the same stance on medication as most other recovery models, and that is if it is a medically supervised protocol, go for it. If you were to read Living Sober, you would discover that exercise is encouraged, medical help is encouraged.
No you’re wrong they ARE anti medication. They have backed off on that stance quite a bit as AA is getting watered down like almost everything else. They have not changed that stance at all in the “oral tradition”. although technically you are correct. The literature backs up your statement.
Thank you, FAttyZ. It IS in the literature and I often refute someone in meetings that says otherwise. It has been my experience that people drag that in from rehabs or their example is third hand, a friend of a friend knew someone that said… I hear that online but I personally don’t know anyone whose sponser told them that.
Still, even if they did…I think it is important to separate a person’s experience and their OPINION from what is actually the position of AA. I think it is also important for a sponser to stress thatpoint.
Good for you. I went to AA to get help for a pill problem at age 17. I got a sponsor
everything was great until 3 mos later my sponsor who had ten years clean, introduced me to meth. and raped me repeatedly. the whole group knew and said nothing. I’ve been using meth ever since besides six mos sober this year. I’m trying to stop and now only use twice a month. i want support but NA scarred m me
I wasn’t raped by a sponsor, but I was subject to a great deal of emotional sexually-based abuse. For me, the abuse is a much more serious problem then Steps 1, 2, 3. I think the insanity really starts with a sponsor asking a sponsee to flip Step 4 (that lists all the people who have hurt you) to Step 8(the list of all the people you have to apologize to and try to behave better with in the future). According to the AA program in my area, if someone abused me, it was my fault and I had to amends to them. This is absolute insanity. AA in my area (more than likely in other areas) doesn’t recognize victims either because of the whole turning Step 4 into Steps 8 and 9. Someone who has been raped by a sponsee is more a victim type than an abuser type. I say this because I am a victim-type as well. AA is not safe for victims because it will just tell you that it is your fault that you were abused. Thus, you have every right to be afraid of 12 Step programs. Stopping meetings but becoming involved in intensive talk therapy (to help with the insanity of 22 months of being blamed when others emotionally or sexually abused me) staying 100% abstinent, and exploring the Anti-AA is what has helped me. I don’t actually have a problem with Steps 1, 2, 3 if they are applied to drugs and alcohol. It just means to me that if I pick up a drink or a drug, I don’t know what will happen, but it will probably be bad, really bad. This means, if I were to take a drug or a drink (which I’m not planning on doing) that I need to not plan on doing it again because if I escaped harm this once that I might not next time. However, I agree that seeing oneself as powerless and unable to control oneself not only has the potential but almost certainly will be harmful if this idea is extended outward at all. In my case, I was praying (as directed by trusted elder members in AA) that I was powerless over a man what was abusing me. Thus, the abuse became worse. DAhhhh, I am not powerless, I just avoid him and decide not to interact. The difference is that people are not actually a drug that enters the body and does things that the mind can’t actually control. People don’t enter and alter your mind at all. They can rape your body, and rip you apart, but the mind can survive that and, can with work, be whole again. I am not powerless to prevent myself from being hurt. And because most of those in AA (sorry one post talked about truly good people in AA, and while I have 3 friends that I’m keeping after a very intense AA experience, I think virtually all old-timer men who hang around meetings are out to prey on female newcomer victims and they do so without guilt because 12 Step Doctrine as practiced in my area says its your fault if you are abused, leaving the victimizer as the injured party if the victim claims to have been hurt) are what could actually be defined as evil, those who hurt others for their own pleasure with no concern for their victims. I imagine my old set of friends trying to tempt me to drink (I’m lucky that they are more social drinkers and not drug users or alcoholics) and I say, “Thank you, but sorry, I don’t want to go back to the hell that was AA.” Of course, the group is going to be okay with you being raped by your sponsor because according to insane 12 Step Doctrine they are powerless over your sponsor, and you deserved the abuse. WHICH IS ABSOLUTELY INSANE, which is probably the best thing about the anti-AA sites, it helps those who have been victimized come to terms with AA and other 12 Step insanity and abuse. Some would say that twice a month is better than daily, which is true. I think the point of the anti-sites is also to explore other ways of not abusing. I can’t really use without abusing (and in that way I still identify one Steps 1, 2, 3, but no one is going to blame me because they are a sick, freak, pervert, and I would like you to be able to be sober and not raped by any more sick, freak, perverted 12 Step liars., or anyone else young enough, pretty enough, or just unlucky enough to hit the radars of the old-time predators to have the same freedom and sobriety at the same time. There are many free resources you can tap into. If you like the prayer aspect of program and asking for sobriety, do it, as in “Thank you God, for keeping me sober today, please keep me sober for the next 24 hours” do it. If that aspect, and that is really the only useful aspect of 12 Step sobriety programs, doesn’t work for you, keep trying until something works. If that is twice a month, then okay, but I’m staying with total abstinence because nothing horrifies me more than the idea of having to crawl back to AA because I can’t get control on my own. I would rather not lose control in the first place.
Thank you, Steven Slate. This is a POWERFUL and profound article/ “Open Letter”!
You have helped to clarify and articulate an aspect of a perspective that has been forming within me for almost the entire year since I left AA. Alcoholics Anonymous and it’s forceful shoving of “powerlessness” and disease down the dry or wet throats of those who stumble into the sticky 12-step web is certainly a major problem with AA—but not the only one by far.
I feel that many of us Anti-AA Movement supporters offer alternatives to AA (12 step) primarily because many have been convinced that people with substance use or over use challenges need “something”? It’s akin to some pacification to take AA’s place for those convinced that they need external “help”. Even that is a choice. If people want or need choices why not give them choices that are not as potentially DANGEEROUS to them on as many varied levels as AA is? Attending AA is replete with dangers that the general populous knows nothing of. Those dangers, largely hidden are a substantial aspect of what fuels many anti-AA activists. The dangers are real; and there are many.
People have lost and are losing their lives as a direct result of being exposed to AA’s mistreatment, harmful and sometimes criminal members and sponsors and just plain malpractice that has caused extreme emotional and mental distress leading to suicide and murder in far too many instances. Again, why not give people who choose, want and think they need it an alternative to AA until they (if ever) are empowered enough to know that they do have the power to choose not to be powerless over AA and in need of external sources of treatment and authority. Sometimes freeing one’s self from the beguiling and deceptive quagmire of dysfunctional thought and belief systems embedded via exposure to AA is a process. It was for me and many very strong and intelligent people I know.
Should people not be told that AA’s major premise which is that AA is the ONLY way is an out and out lie? In most cases that do not involve physical/medical dependence on a substance that would cause withdrawal and/or death… I think people “need” an alternative to AA simply because they “believe” they need it. Therefore, the alternatives serve some purpose for some people. After leaving AA I was abstinent in SMART for over 30 days. I left SMART and was abstinent on my own for another 30 days. Something in me CLICKED.
My drinking was not an addiction or a disease; it was MY CHOICE. That is the POWER! Now I only drink if/when/what I Choose! I am not dead. I am not prison-bound nor institution bound due to escaping from Alcoholics Anonymous. I am fine. Learning about programs like SMART, S.O.S., Women for Sobriety, LifeRing, Moderation Management, etc. has been very empowering for me. I know if for some reason I ever experience any difficulty with my choice to drink responsibly—I have places to go for assistance should I feel I need or just want it. I fight for the right for EVERYONE to know that.
The solutions to alcohol and substance use and/or over-use challenges are as varied as the individuals that deal with them and try to help others to deal with them. As well they should be! Some do not agree with my decision to drink in and outside of the AA and Anti-AA factions. Yes, I said it. I drink if and when and what I want to. Why? I drink because I choose to. I love the way you went into the fact that people drink because of the satisfaction and the pleasurable feeling it gives them. That is the core Truth if anyone ever stated it before. Damn! Thank you so much for that. People drink for the same reason most of them eat fattening foods of little nutritional value. People drink for the same reason people strap sticks to their feet and soar from snowy mountains. People drink for the same reason people touch one another in secret sexy places till they climax. People drink for the same reason for the same reason they watch comedy shows. People drink because they enjoy it… People drink because they choose to. That’s why I stopped going to SMART. I knew I could abstain if I chose to. I chose not to. So, I have a beer every now and then. I enjoy drinking wine with the girls and laughing over all kinds of situations. It’s fun. If it ever stops being enjoyable for me, I will choose something else.
It took me to foolishly allow Alcoholics anonymous and it’s minions to steal my power from me for me to realize how very dear my POWER is to me. I will never allow any organization or individual to do to me what they did to me again. I wish there had been more information out here opposing AA when I first began searching. It would have saved me from a lot of grief, pain and a literal threat to my very existence. Being exposed to AA almost killed me. I am contributing my energy to the Anti-AA Movement in hopes that I might be able to be a single ray of light that some poor soul might see and I might help him or her to take hold, hold on and escape that harmful, dangerous organization by any means necessary. If he or she needs an alternative; I’ll show them one. If they need to go off and do on their own; I’ll encourage them. Whatever works! I’m fighting AA’s domination over the alcohol and substance abuse treatment industry that they still rule despite the efforts and experiences of the many people who have left AA and lived to tell the tale.
Thank you for this article. It highlights the POWER of choice which is of prime importance here. Alcohol consumption is a choice and how one deals with it is also a choice. Maybe some folks need a pacifier of sorts as I did before they completely wean themselves off of “treatments” or maybe they will lean on so-called treatments, programs, AA, SMART or whatever for the rest of their lives. The point is that they know it is their choice!
I choose to help others to feel the sense of empowerment that I feel after finding out the Truth about AA and that they have a choice in all matters around their own alcohol and/or substance use. They have the power to keep going to AA if that is what they want to do. They also have the power to choose to drink themselves to death if that is their choice. I fight for everyone to know what ALL the options are in between. If I ever find myself doing anything around what I deem my responsible consumption of alcohol, I am glad to know that there are places I can go for any help I decide I need that do not include the so called “spiritual-not-religious” dangerous cult of Alcoholics Anonymous.
As long as AA exists there will be a need for alternatives to that hot-wet-mess to exist too…
Everyone deserves options & the Power to Choose. The Anti-AA Movement is letting disempowered people know that AA has lied to them…they do not have to submit to AA or die or be incarcerated or institutionalized. People deserve to know that many felons attend those meetings. People deserve to know that AA has a tendency to spark or intensify suicidal ideology in some people. People have a right to know about “13th stepping”. People have a right to know about America’s pernicious 12 step treatment racket driven by profit and greed instead of actually helping anyone with substance abuse. People have a right to know that AA was made up by Bill W. based on his plagiarism of the Old Oxford Group Religion. It may seem silly but many people need to hear these things over & over and over again from as many sources as they can to combat the propaganda machine that Alcoholics Anonymous has had in place for over 70 dog-damned years. Many people need to hear about alternatives before they can even reach the point that you and I have reached which is knowing that IT IS ALL A CHOICE. The Anti-AA Movement supporters helped me to reach true EMPOWERMENT over this issue; this is PRICELESS!
We Fight Because We Choose To!
Thank you, Steve Slate. I sincerely appreciate your article. It fills a void and yours is a Voice that warrants much attention and respect.
What an amazing response. You’ve articulated your points and goals clearly, and it sounds like a wonderful mission to me.
Thanks,
Steven
SMART recovery does not tell you to attend meetings for the rest of your life, it is based on REBT (rational emotive behavioural therapy) . It does NOT involve the belief in higher powers or moral inventories, it’s more about problem solving and dealing with cravings and urges to use/drink. You learn to dispute the irrational thinking that leads us back to addictive behaviour. It is NOT disease based and although abstinence is a desirable outcome for most of us it also supports those who wish to take a harm reduction path. The meetings are hosted by trained facilitators, you can ‘cross share’ and ask questions when the facilitator is talking. In short it is light years away from what a 12 step meeting is (trust me i went to over 600 of them) I participate in online meetings occaisionally, not because I feel guilty or I believe I will relapse if I don’t but because I enjoy them. Unlike AA ex users and drinkers are welcome.
Not powerless, you’re a victim of the people who preach Alcoholics Anonymous is a program of mass meeting attendance.
The big book of Alcoholics Anonymous states that that books would tell you precisely how how the first 100 got sober. And not once does it mention go to a meeting.
I wish I could find some of those meetings to go to, but there are only 190 meetings int he US a person could go to that are not in a prison or where you don’t have to have a patient relationship. It celebrates 20 year this eyar ye tthe growth is very small. I am not sure about the “trained” faciitators though, as I downloaded the facilitator’s manual an it says the training is optional. Of course that manual is from 2012 and something might have changed.
Drinkers are welcome. It would be naive to think that no one drinks in AA. But if a person is going to an abstinence goal based program for harm reduction, they might be frutrated. The people that find AA the most beneficial are people that have already prgressed beyond that and realize that abstinence is their best choice. There are meetings wth all sorts of formats. Mine does allow cross talk, we don’t sign curt papers so people needing signatures don’t come there (another anti position they drum often despite the presence of alternative programs in our prisons and court system), and I know plenty of people that come to AA for pill problems because NA creates too much stress. I’ve had a few of them under my wing.
I believe that there is room in the field for all of these choices.
I have a huge problem with AA/NA. Powerlessness. I never believed in. They are court ordering sex and violent offenders to an unregulated lay person nutjob club from 1935 that has never been updated.
Sponsors I hear have lost their minds and become control freaks. Sponsors are no one. AA is nothing!
If you get a DUI you will be told by a judge , lawyer or a drug class idiot you have to go to AA/NA meetings. LIE! Its needs to be on every train, plane, boat and bus that its against your 1 st amendment rights . No sending me to a religious club for a moving violation. No bueno!
13 stepping is rampant and is killing people. Drinking and drugging is NOT a disease! I agree 100%. One can get addicted or abuse alcohol or become dependent but that is rare. That behavior does not make you an “addict or alcoholic” for life like BIll W was.
50% of the AA BB is lies. Listen to my radio show with Gunthar and I as we tear up the AA literature on Safe Recovery on Blog talk radio.
I like Smart, Moderation and the idea of Harm Reduction. I think most people need a good non AA book, blog and move on. Out culture has been brainwashed that we need support groups . Its very 1960’s 1970″s the love in EST thinking. Its the basis of a cult. SOS is a simple support group. Its fine too. Jim Christopher hates AA with a passion and has a good reason to.
I think AA is very harmful to the psyche. I think its dangerous for teens and youth.
Im not sure all you are getting at here, but the anti AA movement is growing and there are3 Documentary’s being made right now to educate people on other options. Claudia Christian is making one mostly about Naltrexone and The Sinclair Method. She is an awesome woman and is all about getting the word out about not needing support groups. Most support groups that are free and exist today are framed after the shape of AA meetings. Let by the blind leading the blind. Smart has good training.
AA needs to be sued by the thousands, that have been harmed by it. Parents need to sue for wrongful death. Everyone needs to know there are 7 free choices and about the many good books, like Amy Lee Coys, and many others. You can find me on http://www.leavingaa.com
Thank you for your positive response Steve. I appreciated…I tend to ramble on a bit when i am so passionate about something as I am this…
And thanks Massive! You know are my hero…Have you seen the trailer to the documentary she is making Steve?
http://youtu.be/035Gq_UvUd0
I don’t think we who participate at varying levels in the so-called Anti-AA Movement can all be just lumped into ONE CATEGORY.
We are REAL PEOPLE! We don’t speak from a script. All so-called Anti-AA Movement people do not think the same way nor are we involved in this for the exact same motivations or inspirations. Some of us were in AA or NA and some of us were never actual members. Some of us were in for decades and some just a couple of years. Some have been sexually preyed upon in some way…or financially taken advantage of.
Some like myself have had people use them for free professional services, been stalked by a “friend” in the fellowship and had insane, controlling, mentally abusive sponsor and grand-sponsor do all they could to mentally and emotionally break me down and make me hit bottom or DIE!
Some of us do not drink. Some do. Some of us go to alternative programs. Some do not. What we all have in common is the knowledge that Alcoholics Anonymous and the entire 12-Step racket is harmful to people and it must be changed, replaced or stopped altogether.
We are all doing this to share our experience because it is cathartic and we just may, probably will…SAVE LIVES!
Thank you for bringing more attention to these issues Steve. We will never all agree, but unlike in AA we are allowed to think, research, learn and DISCOVER new things and act according to what we learn as we grow. I personally have had to experience a great deal of growth over the past 3 years…it was that or DIE as I kept being told I was going to do in AA.
We outside of AA do agree on this: Alcoholism is not a “disease”.
Now, as a dear friend just reminded me it is a “condition” with which some people do need help managing, or treating, or curing or whatever it is they choose to do for it.
I have actually been thinking of a way to include CBT in a program I am currently designing for first responders dealing with substance use/over use challenges. I will definitely NEVER send anyone to Alcoholics Anonymous ever in my life…nor will the tiniest vestige of it end up in any program I design.
I don’t mean to send the message that those “who participate at varying levels in the so-called Anti-AA Movement can all be just lumped into ONE CATEGORY.” I don’t think we all fit into one category, and I don’t think everyone recommends the same problematic things I listed in my letter. As I said:
I didn’t say “all”, I said “many.” Nor do I think that everyone agrees with me about the faults of AA. I think “most of us” agree on the faults of AA – but I can’t assume that all of us agree. I’m trying to appeal to those who do, and ask them to be a little more careful with what they recommend as “alternatives” – and to even be critical about where it’s proper to offer alternatives. For example, with support groups. I see your point about them, but I also feel like the basic premise of a “support group” is that people need support, and/or that “support” has some power to stop them from using substances problematically. I disagree with that premise. Thus, I have a hard time endorsing alternative support groups. I think SMART is about as good as it can get (and I do recommend it for people who want free help – it’s the only such thing I recommend), but I even have my reservations there, because of the implicit premise of support groups.
I hope my criticisms in this letter will be taken on an “if the shoe fits” basis. This isn’t meant, by any means, to be an attack on all anti-AAer’s – I myself am an anti-AAer. It’s meant to spark self-critical thought in the more serious ones who are trying to foster a better way to help people.
I have seen Massive’s trailer, and I LOVE IT! 🙂 I can’t wait for the full film; I know it will be awesome, because of her sincerity, dedication, and clarity of focus.
-Steven
thank you steven! I am interviewing and editing the film daily Ill be in NY soon as you know. we should talk about your interview.
Steve,
Your an anti-AAer??? No Way! I could not tell.
Matt
The label “anti AA” is pretty broad and includes everyone or anyone that disagrees with AA’s religious ideology or methods which describes me pretty well. I don’t tout other methods such as SMART or SOS. As a matter of fact they do not show a significant benefit in success above AA but what they do not do is tell people they will die if they leave. I am anti rehab as rehab is viewed today. The current abstinence fixation is just a continuation of prohibition. The year prohibition ends is the year AA begins. This artile is just one straw man after another. Most of the anti AAer’s I know and am friends with don’t promote other programs and in the process back the disease lie. Now I remember why I haven’t been to this site in months….
By the way – I don’t think you rambled at all.
Thank you so much Steve! I appreciate the distinctions. SMART was very helpful to me. LeavingAA.com and NADaytona.org, Orange Papers and ExposeAA among others including your site were also very informative and helpful to me when I first left AA. I have learned manythings that I now intend to use to help and to empower others. So…I guess it’s all good, eh? 😀
What I have never understood about your story, Massive, is why you spent 35 years in a fellowship you never believed in… For a person that didn’t go to rehab or was never mandated to AA by a court, you walked into a fellowship and stayed there, yet most of your writing places that choice on their shoulders.
i find a great deal of the reading I find on the subject of AA to be entertaining. Some of it I find to be just as dangerous as the claimants feel AA to be. Others feel that Bill wasn’t qualified to create a program, yet they then write their own experiences as to how they dealt with their alcohol problems in books they sell or, as one poster says, “design programs”. I didn’t find anything in AA that I haven’t found in any number of other philosophies; AA is just where I found most of it under one roof. But I have to ask what makes them any more qualified than someone else that simply promoted what worked for him? When I do, I discover they have no more than Bill had. I think the Anti-AA movement is great, actually. I support a great deal of how some members feel, but not the tactics, some of which I have experienced first hand. Those include attempts to shame, to ridicule, to expose, to denigrate… all the things they felt AA had done to them. Fortunatey, a good self esteem renders those efforts pretty useless. Other efforts include going to meetings to cause disruption, to blame people for decisions made that had nothing to do with them, to literally scream at them because they believe AA is helpful to them. I am supportive of moving forward with trying to remove mandating. The problem with it is then the issues they claim AA suffers due to mandating will then infect the alternative programs that they favor. The dilution will be favoarble for AA.
One of my disagreements with the offering of “alternatives” was the frustration I felt when I went to these sites and found that there really aren’t any within reach. I was looking for them since I didn’t like the AA in the area I moved to after I became sober. SMART has 190 meetings in the US a person could go to that isn’t client based or in a jail. There also isn’t anything to suggest that it even works, and that is in its own literature.
I truly wish that I could have stayed stopped on my own efforts. It seems that many of the antis investment decards in AA, only to then become disenchanted for one reason or another, and then the result is “I could have done it myself.” Well, I wish that could have been me, folks. I could give up booze for periods of time, but until I became involved with a group, worked to resolve issues and created a new life, I always feel for the siren call of booze. It’s different now. And if it isn’t for you, great. There are options out there for you, too, if you want it.
https://balfourthrb.wordpress.com/2014/05/07/submission-2/
Something I wrote about the concept of powerless…
I think this is a really great piece. I quoted a bit from it on my blog, so I hope you don’t mind. I can understand why people are angry at AA, I was after I left, but I think it is very negative to continually attack it day after day on a forum and argue obsessively about it which can happen. It can create a very bad image, that people in AA who are contemplating leaving may see.
AA gave me a place to go to break the habit of going to the pub, and there were a few good tips hidden amongst the dogma, and the praising of the program. I tell people truthfully what it was like, and say keep an open mind. It is sad that it is the only thing that many can access, but I am sure things will change in the future and ideas will change as a result of new information, being published on the web.
Lets use the web to inform people of choices and not fight and argue with each other and anybody else who has a difference of opinion. We are all only trying to get sober at the end of the day, and the more people who join in and help the better.
I really do like a lot of the things you have said on this site and on Massive’s radio show – good luck
Addictions start with thinking disorders and do not end until the thinking disorder is corrected. AA participation “can” help correct the thinking disorder, but frequently does not, for many reasons; (several of which are repeatedly drummed about on this site). The Anti-AA message is long on criticism but very short on simple and effective solutions that work and offer no “group” support that can mean the difference between life and death for many. IMO, about 95% of what is posted on this site causes more harm than good.
This “ocean” of oblivious chatter easily confuses and “frightens” people with cognitive functioning that has been dramatically impaired by chronic substance abuse. This I consider extremely irresponsible. Of the many criticisms leveled against AA, I feel compelled to mention that I have rarely seen an AA site that openly criticize anyone else’s efforts to assist people in addiction recovery.
The only good thing about this site I can think of is that it has motivated me to complete my book that focuses on methods and principles that are scientifically effective, regardless of their source in AA, SMART, CBT, certain religious practices or any other source. I am including only those that are very simple and highly effective; (the disease concept, perpetual powerlessness and so forth are not in that category). However, its primary purpose is the same as the AA 12Step program was originally designed and applied, as a quick, simple way to help the acutely addicted to clear their mind, learn how to think effectively “for themselves” and learn from their own experience. The important thing is that it is designed to become a “self directed” program at the earliest possible time.
My hope is that the AA and NON-AA movements may be unified on truly common scientific grounds, instead of separated by their “differences”. I don’t know who started this “fight” but it is senseless and I intend to do my part to illustrate how unnecessary and foolish it really is. In the meantime, a message to the person still struggling to break free of an addiction: Just “take what you need and leave the rest” from AA, this Site or any other sources (counselors etc) that seem appealing to you and put together your own program of recovery. There is no “official” AA program and everyone who is successful in it or any other 12Step program practices only those parts that work for them, no matter what comes out of their mouth. The people who criticize AA fail to mention that all you need is one other person to form an AA or other 12Step group of your own and you can use their materials and do it however you want to, and don’t have to be exposed to rapists, or anyone else other than the 1 other person of your choice. Many people who attend AA and/or identify as members of AA abuse the program and are dangerous (as described on these sites) so do not hesitate to form your own AA group with people you feel safe to be around.
I don’t find much in LL52’s post to disagree with. However, I think 90% of the problems people complain about in AA could be solved by those like minded people starting their own AA group and doing it how they think it ought to be done. That would require only a very small amount of motivation and work. However, it seems that most prefer to do nothing and blame AA (or someone else) for their lack of motivation, work and personal responsibility for their own recovery.
What none of these “complainers” seem to realize is that both AA and NA (which I know more about) were DESIGNED SPECIFICALLY for flaming, blazing, lazy, know it all without doing anything assholes like the ones that post so often on here! The NA Basic Text specifically states, “try everything, keep what you need and leave the rest”. If you don’t like prayer LEAVE IT OUT (the Basic Text specifically suggests this), if you don’t like powerlessness, use it in the past tense (like I have), if you don’t like the disease concept of addiction, don’t use it, throw it on the ground, stomp and spit on it if you want, no one will care. The ONLY requirement for NA membership is the DESIRE TO STOP USING DRUGS, nothing more. THIS IS SPECIFICALLY STATED.
DESPITE these “guarantees”, people still INVENT reasons to blame, complain and ridicule NA, based on the Freedom each member has to work the program in their own way. This is just insanely stupid. Their problem is this:
AA isn’t a BUS that you get on and ride around in. It is more like your own CAR that you get in and drive yourself and can modify as you see fit so that it works best for you. If you don’t like the assholes at the meeting you go to, either CHANGE meetings OR find just ONE other person that sees it your way start your own NA group and do it exactly the way you want to. If you want to ride the BUS, climb aboard and SHUT UP. Why cuss the people in the NA and AA cars and blame them because you are on the BUS if you are so darned happy to be riding it?
I don’t want to be in a recovery group for the rest of my life as they are full of dysfunctional people spouting slogans. I did not feel AA works because the 12 steps are based on faith rather than any rational method of recovery. AA has a poor success rate and I wanted something better. I went to many meetings over the world and while some were worse than others, with reflection, I do not feel any of them were that great. I feel the whole concept of powerlessness is flawed. I do not consider myself lazy! I have worked hard on recovery, and did not simply turn up to a 12 step group and believe the bullshit. I disagreed and walked away and found something that worked.
Your paragraph about cars and buses is stupid in my opinion and typical of a 12 step fan. Many of us have no need for a group now as we have found superior solutions elsewhere.
I have heard little to nothing of the superior solutions you have found and see no evidence of that superiority in any of your AA bashing posts. In fact, one thing that the steps force people to do is focus on their role WITHOUT FINGERPOINTING OR BLAMING ANYONE ELSE FOR OUR FAILURES, then accept personal responsibility for doing the WORK required to correct our deficiencies. This is not easy and many seek and find different or softer ways, many of which I use myself today and applaud others for finding as well. However, of all the methods I have seen people find that really work, NONE involve finger pointing and blaming others for their adult failures. In fact, its usually a very accurate indication that self deception and addiction still have the wheel. I am a fan of the spiritual principles of honesty, open-minded acceptance and self_determination, but no fan of anyone else’s interpretation of the 12Steps but my own. I no longer need to push anyone e!we down in my efforts to raise myself. So hop off the bus Gus, make a new plan Stan and get yourself free cause your whining about AA is part of the problem, not the solution.
Interesting article, I agree with most of it, but it leaves out the importance of venting and mental health issues. The more one feels that 12step has injured them in some way, the more important venting can be. Before I got online, I had no idea that there were so many people who also had the same problems with 12step programs and treatment. It was a great weight off my shoulders to know I wasn’t alone. When I see this happening over and over, it keeps it all fresh for me.
For the past ten years I’ve been working in mental health, primarily with people who have coexisting moderate to severe mental health and substance issues. The majority of clients are not alcoholics/addicts but come into police contact when they are having a mental health episode and have been drinking or drugging to calm down or pass out. If a person drinks four times a year and comes into police contact two of those times, they get labeled as as an alcoholic and pushed into programs that ignore mental health.
Both mental health programs I’ve worked for used Motivational Interviewing, an evidence-based practice with the highest success rate for the dually diagnosed.
My problem is that the God bashing so prevalent in society today is a large part of the AA bashing that goes on and it’s not needed. I don’t hate religion. I don’t care that AA refers people to churches in a clandestine manner or otherwise. I do have plenty against AA and I firmly believe it can be harmful, it almost killed me.
So people hate the 12 steps and God and churches and the churches (not all) hate the 12 steps and everyone hates everyone and maybe that’s recovery from something but I don’t know what. My premise is you drank or drugged yourself into AA because you have a mental health issue that needs to be dealt with and it probably won’t get dealt with in AA.
I do believe however and will support ONE thing. When you are alone and have become addicted to whatever and you are trying to kick and sitting on the couch telling yourself you won’t do that today … You probably do need help at that point and probably the easiest way (or most readily available right now) is AA. However after a very short period (everyone is different) you should look at what mental issue made that happen, (unless you magically get better by just not drinking) not just told “you act think and feel that way because you are an alcoholic.” That my friends is nonsense.
I had forgotten about the piece from 1963 and enjoyed reading it again. I do not think you are doing anything wrong by pointing out the major flaws in AA. I had a really bad spell in AA when I went to some quite cult like meeting including the Joys meeting and others in the UK, mentioned on a pro AA site, which is setup by current AA members, to try and stop the poor behaviour of some groups.
Here is a link http://www.aacultwatch.co.uk/2012/03/year-or-two-with-joys-of-recovery.html
The author points out that many members of that group had to attend counselling afterwards. Other groups were influenced by the members of these groups and have suffered, while some AA groups are much more useful for fellowship.
George may find the http://www.orange-papers.org/forum/ useful as a place to argue as Orange allows debate between people with violently opposing views. I do not trust some of the members so keep away. I am not sure continually bashing AA is the best way to spend time in recovery.
There are many other blogs that are smaller including my own http://www.recoveringfromrecovery.com that are also critical of the 12 step method. I am glad that many take the time to write down their thoughts about such an important subject, so that those that find AA inappropriate, can make other choices.
I have had a very successful recovery and have found the internet a great place to explore this subject. I feel that AA suits less and less people these days, because people are drinking fro different reasons than in in the 1930’s. AA may suit low bottom drunks, but is not a great solution for a housewife who has used wine as a crutch after being influenced by modern advertising and supermarkets full of choices. The type of people facing problems have changed and they need different methods, such as building self esteem to learn to cope. AA can quite often destroy that, especially when sponsors overstep the mark.
The soberistas site based in the UK is using an online solution to simply offer fellowship, without steps, but louts people in contact with some counsellors and other places, that can give somebody a balanced opinion and options. That seems a good approach for many at the moment and is certainly safer and less judgemental. I like Steven’s site because it is much more balanced than many, where people have moved from AA. I feel many try to be too evangelical about the solution that worked for them, thinking that it should work for others, but as we have seen from AA, often does not!
I really like that mindfulness workbook. You certainly approach the subject with a lot more honesty and integrity than most.
I disagree, Lovinglife. I remember going to the OPF and discovering that I wasn’t drunk enough to even be an alcoholic nor was my status as a financially secure person a point in my favor. I know many people in AA that didn’t lose it all, and the 12 and 12 points it out. At my Tuesday women”s meeting in MB, we had the very type of woman you described that would be hammered when their husband’s came home.
I am not sure that continuing to bash AA int he fashion I see most is really any sort of activism. Some of these people are as entrenched in AA as they ever were despite not going to meetings. I am sure ther eare more constructive ways to do it.
I disagree, Lovinglife. I remember going to the OPF and discovering that I wasn’t drunk enough to even be an alcoholic nor was my status as a financially secure person a point in my favor. I know many people in AA that didn’t lose it all, and the 12 and 12 points it out. At my Tuesday women”s meeting in MB, we had the very type of woman you described that would be hammered when their husband’s came home.
I am not sure that continuing to bash AA int he fashion I see most is really any sort of activism. Some of these people are as entrenched in AA as they ever were despite not going to meetings. I am sure there are more constructive ways to do it.
The devil is not in the bottle or drug which btw no one explains how you are not allergic to drugs or your body can’t metabolize drugs like other people. So much for the “disease” of “alcoholism.” The problem is your drinking or drugging was/is suicidal. When I hear people say I don’t want to drink/drug, they don’t mean drink/drug like normal people. They mean “I don’t want to go back to that insane suicidal behavior.”
Drugs and alcohol do NOT cause that behavior. (ie you don’t have a disease that acts up when you use) They may cause it in YOU and if so you have a SERIOUS problem. The first thing is of course to stop doing the substance but WHAT THEN? Sit around AA meetings for the next thirty years saying I’m so lucky I don’t do THAT anymore? But what DO you do? That behavior can manifest in countless other ways. You may not be able to function.
AA is full of people who can’t and don’t or they function in ways I certainly don’t want for me.
If your powerless or if you have a choice are subjects that deserve to be discussed, you won’t hear them discussed in AA because thinking is discouraged. I don’t totally disagree for a little while which brings me to the point. AA is and should always have been a short term solution. You need to stop. Your chances of being able to do that alone or with your old friends who are using still are not good. But after a few months or a year, you ARE stopped.
Now the real journey SHOULD begin but it won’t if you sit around AA and listen to them. You won’t be going anywhere fast. Psychology and therapy like thinking are discouraged. “Don’t go to the doctors you’ll end up on pills. I went to the doctors and ended up worse than ever.” You haven’t hung around AA long if you haven’t heard that old line. You DO have to watch out for drug pusher doctors and nurse practitioners. I’m not against medication. BUT until you are in a mental state where you can actually be honest about how many pills you’re taking, and if you are drinking with them you shouldn’t take them. At least that’s true for me. Otherwise you’ll end up trying to kill yourself with your medication. (that’s another discussion)
So am I saying medical science is the answer and not spirituality? I don’t know. I DO know one thing however, AA needs an upgrade. It’s cult like and potentially dangerous. Especially for the vulnerable people who end up wandering in there or who get sentenced there by well-intentioned but misguided state agencies.
We weren’t the only ones who knew that “higher power” really meant “god”, and that no matter how much we wished for it, a doorknob, oak tree, or Group Of Drunks (G.O.D.) couldn’t magically enter our soul and remove the will to drink or drug.. i dont agree because i know some one who used thier higher power as potatoes no joke.. because it fed so many people in the world and he saw the good in that.. and if you have read the book aa .. KNOW where does it say there it is a disease just a spiritual malady…i hear people saying that in meeting and i dont agree even tho i am in aa….
“That disease theory is the same one that teaches people they are weak…” i dont agree very much i dont think i am weak at all…. i was born as a cocaine baby and was more then likely to have a substance a abuse problem.
that they need to “avoid triggers” in relapse prevention programs; that their brain makes them do it ” i think they teach that in early recovery because it can be very hard.. know i have been around people drinking and even held alcohol and nothing happened.
– you’re teaching people that the cause of their substance use has nothing to do with direct choice, and that it’s actually caused by a biological factor. Doesn’t such a theory suffer the same problems as the disease concept of addiction? “” i agree with some of the stuff your saying but as a young child i was put on drugs at a young age then at the age of 12 my parents made me go on ritalin for years even tho i didnt want it. that wasnt really a choice..
i agree with some of the stuff. but aa has helpled alot of people they use to use shock treatment and stuff like that… aa is great and works if you work all the suggestion i dont like alot of media bashing say it doesnt work.. i personally think this article is a bad idea even if aa has its flaws.. what if some one were to read this and decide not to go to aa when it could of saved thier life… what i fight for is that i hope everyone finds thier recovery aa is not the only way there are lots of ways .. i think there should be no anti aa movement … just a movement where we help people as much people with any program just no puting programs down.. i am not the best writer… but have a good day everyone
Steven, this is a powerful letter. I am Christian preacher and ex-cocaine “addict” who is very much involved in the Anti-AA Movement. I have over 24 years without misusing drugs and alcohol. You asked, “What are you fighting for?” Good question. As for me, I am fighting for the truth in regards to the subject of addictions and recovery programs. You spoke a lot of that truth in this letter. I am going to use parts of your letter and make a few changes to make some things more clear and to make some other points. The final draft will be a script for some of my YouTube videos. Again, I want to say that you made some very good points that need to be heard by the entire recovery movement. Thank you and God bless you for writing this.
Jim Battle
The Anti-AA Preacher
This open letter is absurd. You are painting in such broad streaks as to render your commentary meaningless. You can have a support group that is truly different than AA… Some people need support in making better choices. Getting support does not automatically = AA does not automatically = cult. You need to take a course on logic and perhaps rhetoric at a local JC and turn something with this in to really be taught how to make more your thinking than ever more routine Internet dribble.
Matthew: He will just move your comments to another location and delete anything you post later. I predict he will be handing out koolaid in a jungle someday.
I left AA after 14 years happy and grateful sobriety when I was 13th stepped by someone who subsequently ended up with one of my sponsees.
I realised AA is not a safe place, even for people who have many years’ of experience in the rooms, and spent the last year deprogramming from the steps and exploring more productive and reliable treatment options.
CBT, good honest research, and online blogging are all very useful. As a result I’m now happier and far more secure in my sobriety than ever before.
I’ve concluded that AA is an outdated treatment modality proffered by a organisation that monopolises the all-important element of sober peer support yet only makes people sicker in the long term.
You can read my blog here: “Leaving AA, Staying Sober” jonsleeper.wordpress.com
I’d be interested in any comments.
.
Hi Stephen.
Great article. Bears repeated reading.
Here are three things worth fighting for:
1. Safeguarding in AA meetings – at least a leaflet from GSO on the subject!
2. 21st century recovery that offers help to the fastest growing religious sect in the USA … the atheists
3. A science-based, falsifiable recovery methodology that can be improved over time, rather than an immutable programme apparently revealed by divine guidance.
Is that too much to ask for? Hasn’t the “success” and media approval of AA and 12 step fellowships totally obviated these goals?
I blog about the subject here “Leaving AA, Staying Sober” at jonsleeper.wordpress.com
Best wishes, Jon S
“You’re not powerless – but you need a mutual support group.” The trouble with that argument is that I’ve never heard an anti-stepper say it. Never.
I’m an anti-stepper and I’ll say it. You’re not powerless, but there’s no question that you need a support group. AA helped me a great deal, and in the early days of recovery there’s no question it can be a life-saver. I still recommend it to struggling alcoholics. That’s not because AA works, however. It’s actually more to do with the fact that AA was first to market. Any other support group would have done the same. Look at the Washingtonians in the previous century, or groups run by other religious organisations today such as the Mormons or Scientology. They all get people sober. The problem is that, although there are good things about AA, it’s now almost entirely anachronistic. I finally left AA after 14 years in early 2014, and blog about my experience “Leaving AA, Staying Sober” at jonsleeper.wordpress.com
Hi Steven,
I’ve really enjoyed your well resourced website, it’s one I keep coming back to. While I’m personally very critical of Twelve Step Inc, I probably know the most common criticisms by rote, and it’s a breath of fresh air to read your owns views regarding addiction treatment. I have some specific and broad criticisms of the “open letter” you wrote, I realize I’m chiming in late here and some of my criticisms may have missed the boat. Criticisms 1,2 and 3 refer to your points 1,2 and 3.
1) My criticism of this is that it is nearly a form of equivocation. Semantics aside, let’s look at what “evidence based treatment”: Twelve Step Facilitation (TSF) has no body of evidence to support an efficacious nature, the formal studies conducted run into numerous problems from the outset. Nothing has been been proven either way, in fact the data is so weak that it’s hard to draw any firm conclusions from at all. The fact TSF has been labeled as “evidence based” says nothing about the efficacy of other treatments for which the data is more forthcoming, and conclusive. It’s just an appeal to semantics, It has nothing to do with what works and what doesn’t.
2) I simply don’t see the implication. Seeking professional says nothing about one’s belief surrounding the pathology of alcohol dependence, in either technical or broad terms.
3) I think you’re simplifying the experiences people may have when accessing medical or specialist help. Staying away from triggers is common sense for people in complex social situations for a wide variety of reasons, especially when there are a multitude of factors feeding the decision making process to drink or not. Maybe I’m not privy to the same professionals you are, but I think you’re guilty of straying into broad generalizations about the professional classes involved in addiction treatment. So far as I’m aware there’s a growing push for behavioral treatments try to empower patients, rather than the other way around.
The rest of what you write seems to be advocating an approach which views addiction as a direct choice. I am deeply critical of this line of thinking, but those criticisms are beyond the scope of what I have space to write here. I feel the simplification here is not a slight error, but almost a wanton disregard for other factors which measurably affect the way people make choices. These are different for everyone, and would include biological predispositions, social-economic factors, family history, mental health, abuse history and many other vulnerabilities. Statements such as “believe that they are powerful and capable of making whatever changes they may end up wanting” are beyond simplistic advice for vulnerable people facing problems on a multitude of fronts.
To me, you seem to be making an argument much more similar to AA – that addiction at its core is the same for everyone across the board, so only one approach is needed, and the plethora of other inputs which feed into people’s lives can be disregarded. I don’t think there’s much evidence for this. Personally I think AA and other TSF will always have a place, because some people – a small group – respond to it. If that’s what works for them, then that’s what works for them. I think addiction is manifests in a plethora of different ways, only highly individualized approaches have a chance of closing the gap – more a yawning chasm – between what’s available currently and what needs to be.
Steven …. I believe your an addiction researcher and counselor of sorts ok whats your accreditation a website ???
Whats your day job ohhhhh I see you might make a living siphoning off AA members that’s your customer base all this tripe you write its in order to line your own pockets selling snake oil perhaps AA is bullshit perhaps there is no God but at least they don’t ask for an insurance card
When Monica s movie is released this connection to the financial gain of the anti aa movement shall be revealed its one thing to say hey I dont believe this is how I do it and a totally other thing to say I dont believe and I,m going to make money off of it …
shame shame shame
That was very informative and from a personal perspective I would have to agree. I mean I believe in God and I believe he gave me free will and Iade a mess of it. In that process of self destruction I lost my livelihood as I worked as a respiratory therapist. So I did 8 months rehab inpatient at a faith based institution and they also taught we are powerless which rubbed me the wrong way. Better yet they made me do a 12 step program to get my resp license back which I refused do now I’ve wasted years of college and a career. I hated been told I was powerless so I relapsed a few times but had a few more kids and willfully quit on my own. It’s possible and all those programs are for is $$ while people who had a career can’t ever work again
Hello. I recently had a run-in with a stepper. I ended up studying the whole concept, in and out of those rooms. I will never go back into any those rooms ever again!
Please enjoy my essay here.
LAST LOVE LETTER TO A STEPPER!
http://www.orange-papers.org/forum/node/6713
While I agree that the 12 steps has problems, I don’t agree that it’s wrong to seek help in other areas. For example, one of the risk factors for substance abuse is childhood abuse. Are you implying that someone who has emotional pain due to being abused as a child, and who chooses drugs as a way to deal with that pain, shouldn’t see a psychiatrist to better understand their own feelings? Or that someone with a mental illness shouldn’t see a doctor to treat a chemical imbalance? You also seem to be implying that group support isn’t necessary. Maybe it isn’t necessary, but if someone finds it helpful in their recovery, why not? The problem I have with the article is not that 12 steps can be harmful, but the implication that all other sources of help and support are bad.
First let me say that you are shedding some light on AA, it’s not a perfect program and some people may not get help from it. I do realize that many times in these groups finding recovery through the 12 steps makes them believe that it is the best thing God has given the world and everyone who has an addiction should do it. So you have many good points.
But your article leans way to much on the side that those who abuse and constantly use drugs and alcohol should not seek any help because it will be to much like AA. That is like someone coming down with cancer not going to see the doctor because many times they can’t cure cancer. I would hope that despite your heavy criticism of what those in the main stream think about addiction that you don’t encourage people to not seek help. Sure AA isn’t flawless, but the beauty of programs like AA is it gets you in touch with people who are or have gone through a heavy addiction. AA isn’t for everyone sure, atheists don’t really fit it, but I think what is essential to almost all addiction recovery is to be connected with other people.
One more point, coming from a religious perspective I understand the whole powerlessness thing. While it can be read in a completely negative light, the first three steps work together, and really at the heart of the 12 steps is that we need help and God/another person/professional/etc. can give us that help. Let me put it this way, try training for a Marathon on your own, sure you could do it but I would bet you wouldn’t do as well as you could. Get a professional trainer, join a group of runners and you will likely do much much better, maybe even compete in your age group or something. The idea of being powerless is that on our own recovery is unlikely, but with the assistance of others and God recovery is possible and will happen. If step 1 causes to loath yourself, beat yourself up ect. I would hope a therapist, others in groups would help you overcome this mindset. Being powerless doesn’t mean we are some type of stupid animal that can’t do anything, or that we must become a robot where someone controls everything we do. Rather it means that maybe we will have some success on our own, but it is likely we won’t have any success at all. When we admit that we can’t do this on our own we reach out to someone who can walk with us on the journey. That is a completely different mindset than I’m weak, I’m no good, etc. One last analogy (using scripture) when Jesus talked about my yoke is easy my burden light, he was actually talking about a tool people put on oxen to help plow a field. In this situation if a strong oxen and a weak oxen work together the strong oxen will do most of the pulling and the weak one won’t do much but they are still working together, if the weak oxen did it on his own he likely wouldn’t get anything done. This is the same idea in the first three steps. Sure you have to accept that I’m powerless, and maybe you think this is bad, but you miss the point that our higher-power isn’t someone who completely takes us over, it is someone who gives us assistance.
I’ll wrap up my comment with this. People may be able to stop heavy drinking without support from a professional, or a group, but getting help is always better than not getting help. I hope we can learn more about addiction and the truth behind it.
This letter has inspired me to change the way I go about talking about addiction. I’m not an addiction counsellor, but an educator. I believe that when someone is ready to change they will take whatever actions need to be taken to make that change. I’ve always believed it is my job to help them come up with what that is, not tell them.
I wholeheartedly believe that addiction is a choice. One might feel powerless during active using, but one is not powerless. I learned this through my own struggle with smoking/nicotine. I chose to start vaping nicotine regularly thus became physically dependant on it (very rapidly actually). I did this for 9 months after struggling with smoking on and off for many years. Then not getting the same payoff from using as I had in the past and being unwilling and unable to meet my nicotine requirements during my workday, I decided it just wasn’t worth it anymore and I quit. It wasn’t easy, but quit without ‘support’ or a 12-step group.
Now I have to rethink some of things I do to offer ‘help’ to others. I am guilty of doing many of the things listed above.